Now Is The Time…

Yes my friends, now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. This health care bill has passed. Now comes the time for legal action, civil disobedience and all other manners of opposition that we are legally entitled to as United States citizens. Now is the time for states to pass laws unbinding themselves from this burden that has been placed on their shoulders. Now is the time to call for the impeachment of Barack Obama for unconstitutional actions. Now is the time for citizens to refuse to adhere to an unconstitutional infringement upon their liberties. Now is the time for all good men to act.

Now is the time for Republicans and conservatives to restate their opposition to this bill and their commitment to having it repealed. Now is the time for Republicans to gear up to make sure that Barack Obama is a one term president. It is the time to ensure that Nancy Pelosi never again becomes the Speaker of the House, that once respectable house of the people that is now little more than an enclave of corruption, arm twisting and bribery, that once honorable institution that is now little more than a partisan playhouse wherein one party passes groundbreakingly bad legislation over the will of the people. Now is the time for all good men to act.

This bill will do nothing to address the problems with health care but will cause massive amounts of new problems. New government programs will allow for more red tape, less innovation, more taxes and worse care. This bill will provide federal funds for abortion despite Obama’s symbolic gesture of an executive order disallowing abortion funding. Stupak was duped and he screwed the American people with his vote. My prayer is that he will be replaced with a true pro-lifer. A conservative Republican. Now is the time for all good men to act.

Nothing we can say or do will remove the fact that socialist democrats have passed the most marxist, statist piece of legislation in the history of our proud Republic. But what we can say and do is repeal it before the damage is done. We must take this fight to the conservative Supreme Court and have it nullified by showing it’s true constitutional problems. This bill can be defeated even now, repealed, annulled, nullified. It can be and it should be. Let every Republican now raise his/her voice in support of taking this bill to the SCOTUS. It is the time for every Republican challenger and incumbent run on the repeal of this monstrosity. Now is the time for all good men to act.

I watched the whole spectacle yesterday. Starting at 1:30 in the afternoon I watched as Pelosi and co. were heckled by angry protesters all the way up to 11:45 P.M. after the final vote was cast. I watched as socialist dems cheered the demise of freedom in America. It was then that I swore in my wrath that I will do everything in my power to bring America back to where it was when I was a child. Where it should be according to the Constitution and our founding fathers. It is my time to do everything I can to support conservatives and Republicans like John Boehner, Michelle Bachmann and Mike Pence who resolutely fought this bill and continue to do so. Now is the time for all good men to act.

“Almighty God, Creator of all things, Upholder of the universe, we come before Thee today to ask that You not remove Thy gracious hand of blessing from our land. I ask that Thou put within the hearts of Americans a contrite spirit, that we might return to Thee and repent of our wicked ways. We ask that Thou protect our leaders, but that Thou might convict them and cause them to turn against this bill that dishonors You through the slaughter of the unborn. Please Lord we beseech Thee, save our land. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I pray, amen.”


24 Responses to Now Is The Time…

  1. Zero says:

    1) What you speak of is the specific reasons why the subsidies exist to help people purchase health insurance. If you don’t have the means to purchase insurance on your own, then you get help because it has been decided by a majority that health insurance is important enough to help people get it.

    2) But the polls showed that over 60% of the country was in favor of a public option. They showed that around 50% of the country was in favor of the bill. You only have to look to find the websites dedicated to it, you yourself have criticized some of them in the past. People on message boards, forums, commenting on articles, posts. Etc. All over the internet. It’s ridiculous to assert that very few people support it when it’s been shown, proven and I’ve linked the facts and proof in previous comments showing that it is about a 50-50 split across the country for the bill.

    3) … I’m just going to copy and paste the points I’ve made in my previous comments to this.

    You use the same tactics of trying to capitalize on fear of obama that they have done. You falsely insist that people are breaking en masse to the republican party when that’s just not true. You parrot these republican talking points and then balk when I give you evidence to the contrary citing ‘inaccuracies’ or ‘bias’ which ‘never exists’ in whatever you try to use as proof against me.

    Or perhaps making the fallacious argument of calling the democrats social/commun/fasc-ist. They aren’t. You got pissed at Obama for supposedly refusing to not use the word “terror”, here’s a hint Try again. You have made the mistake of insinuating that health care is just part of a larger socialist agenda. You continued to propagate the lies about death panels.

    I have no problem bringing more in if you so desire.

    4) I’ll go through these one at a time:

    (Section 3003) I do not see how a doctor saying how often he prescribes a treatment and how often it works gives away any doctor-patient privacy. They are not revealing names or other revealing information about the treatments. In fact, I believe it is a good thing simply because it makes it easier for doctors to see how effective the treatments they are prescribing are nation-wide. Not only that but it establishes that the methodologies will be made public. Therefore if there is any breach of doctor-patient confidentiality (which is not required at all by what is written) the public would see it.

    (Section 2711) The removal of lifetime caps are a necessary provision. You could be paying your insurance for a very long time and get cancer at an early age. You manage to survive but it comes back. Eventually you hit your lifetime cap and you have to choose to either go bankrupt or die. How can that possibly be fair? How can that possibly be alright? I reiterate my previous statement that health insurance should never be “for-profit”. Profit motive should never be anywhere near decisions about human life. There should never be a limit on how much care you can receive. Maybe insurance companies could simply offer discounts (like car insurance companies do) for those who don’t use their insurance for a year or several. I like that idea much better than lifetime caps.

    (Section 1302) The first thing I will note is that these requirements are for Qualified plans for the Health Care exchanges. This list is not the required list for the individual mandate which makes your argument moot. Just so you can see, Section 5000A, subsection f, defines the minimum essential coverage as: any of the government sponsored programs, an eligible employer sponsored plan which is defined as either a government plan or “any other plan or coverage offered in the small or large group within a State”, coverage under a plan in the individual market of a state (does not have to meet the list you brought up from section 2711), Such other coverages like a State Health Risk Pool, etc.

    Now we can look at this definition if you like. If you look at this section, It allows for the modification of the list via public statistics on what people use and how they use it. Therefore while I can agree with you that this provision could be improved, the law specifically makes room for it to be improved. The law specifically states that the secretary is to ensure that the list is equal in scope to the typical benefit package offered by the average employer in the country. I believe this is a good standard to go by. While we’re in this section may I also make an observation about something you may indeed support: The Secretary may “not make coverage decisions, determine reimbursement rates, establish incentive programs, or design benefits in ways that discriminate against individuals because of their age, disability, or expected length of life;” in addition to other provisions ensuring the prevention of many things people claimed would happen. Once again, this list of requirements is not for the mandate, only for plans that wish to qualify for the insurance exchanges.

    (Section 9009(b)) IF you read the section you see there’s an interesting way of calculating this fee. If an entity did less than $5 million of sales then they pay no fee. If they did between $5 and $25 million then only half of their sales count for the fee. And only if they did more than $25 million does it count all of their business. In addition, the fine is a total of $2 million across the entirety of covered entities. Each one has a fine determined based on it’s percentage of sales as a percentage of $2 million. This means that a company that did lets say $30 million dollars of sales will at most have a fine of $2 million (which means they are the only company that made any sales so it will obviously be a lot less). $2 million is only roughtly 6.67% of that $30 million. So if they have less than a 6% profit on selling those medical devices it MIGHT be a problem. But considering how overpriced nearly everything concerning health care is in this country, I doubt that the money will be a drop in the bucket for these companies. Obviously less sales means less payment which just shows again, the fee is next to nothing relative to profit and sales of these devices. I find it hard to believe that it will have any effect on new devices, especially considering that there are provisions that give grants and tax credits for the development of new drugs and new technology.

    Lets take a closer look at this individual mandate:
    Aside from what I mentioned above, there are several Exemptions to the mandate. Specifically making room for those who cannot afford health insurance to not be penalized (such as someone under 100% of the poverty line for the family size) and to receive tax credits to assist in purchasing health insurance for those who need the assistance.

    It seems that while the broad title of a section may invoke negative responses to some provisions, quite a few of them are no where near the horrible idea that you think they are once you actually read the bill. Please ask me if you wish for more things in the bill to be spelled out for you. I have no problem with it.

    5) As mentioned above the current bill specifically provides for the fact that the “cost/benefit analysis” cannot be used for any health care decisions, I don’t see how it would get factored into any public option. In addition it would simply be an OPTION, not a takeover. Obviously if it was horrible no one would use it and all the conservatives would be proven right. So since no one would force anyone to take the public option, why not allow it? Why not see if it CAN be better? Afraid that it might be?

    6) Actually, the Socialist Market Economy of China has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system. It is also the fastest-growing economy and will soon surpass us if we don’t pull out of the recession. Pure capitalism is not sustainable. And the US is not a PURE capitalism economy, there are elements of socialism market and others. As I said before, a mixed economy, regulated capitalism, that would, in my opinion, be the best system.

    7) Economic and insurance experts have time and time again stated that tort reform is only but a small drop in the bucket. If you are so gung ho about competition why do you oppose the Public Option so much, whose only purpose would be to COMPETE against insurance companies forcing them to lower rates and increase care. The sudden swell of money is from corporations, and therefore I discount it completely. Corporations do not speak for the people. I can easily deny that it will turn out badly, when things get better. When the reforms work, people will say “Hey, it worked. Why were we so afraid?”

    Every major groundbreaking legislation (such as Civil Rights, or Women’s Suffrage) had the same thing happen. People went around saying that the country was going to end, that they would riot in the streets, that they would revolt, that it was the end of the world. Guess what? It never happened. I am only glad that I can bear witness to a historic moment that will, as those before it, prove the detractors wrong when the country doesn’t fall into ruin.

    Actually, I state that top-level technological development is the only place where the US excels above others. New treatments, new drugs, new devices, yea if you have the money the US is the place to be for that. Most people, unfortunately, don’t have the money. Average healthcare for your average person? The US is comparatively horrible for. We are 38th in life expectancy, the UN has us at 33rd for infant mortality the CIA factbook lists us as 46th for 2009. If you have money and need a cutting-edge expensive risky procedure then yea, the US is best. Otherwise, you’re better off in many other places, on average.

    Whew that one took a while. We’re getting really long in our comments 🙂

    • Alright, you have made your point, I have made mine. With other engagements in the coming days I am not able to respond to your most recent comment. Be assured though that I absolutely disagree with everything you state. 😉 You contend that the government should run health care, I contend that the government should get its hands off of health care. You state that regulated capitalism is better and I state that less regulation would be better. I dislike the sections I mentioned, you excused them. Perhaps for the next blog article I write, we should both make a commitment to shorter comments? 🙂

      • Zero says:

        We could try, but I doubt we would succeed. We are both very wordy people and need to completely explain our points.

        😛 it’ll be fun though.

      • Aye (I always liked sounding Irish!) We are both wordy. As much as you aggravate me in every possible way and are opposite to all my views, it is mentally stimulating, to say the least, debating you. Happy Easter to you and your family.

  2. Zero says:

    1) I’m not saying the people should not pay for health care. However, whatever happened to helping your fellow man? What is wrong with the government assisting people to buy health care? Yes, life goes on after bankruptcy but why is the US the only country where the most common reason for bankruptcy is medical bills? Why are we only ranked 17th for quality of our health care when we spend so much more on it? a few exceptional and world class clinics scattered throughout the country helps only those who have the money or luck to get there. Not very useful for your average american. So once again, you have a right to life. Why should someone have to choose between a healthier life or being bankrupt?

    2) Considering this site is where a lot of official polls are quoted from I think it’s interesting that the poll proves that roughly half the country thinks it is a good thing that the bill passed. This directly refutes any assertion that 79% or whatever, what were against this bill.

    3) Top 18 near immediate effects of the bill:
    An end to pre-existing conditions
    Small business tax credits (for up to 50% of employees premiums)
    Rebate for ‘donut hole’ for seniors, which as of next year will be gone.
    Cut-off age for young adults to be covered under their parents plan raised to 27
    Lifetime caps on insurance coverage are banned
    New insurance plans must also cover preventative care (by 2018 ALL plans must cover preventative care with no co-pay)
    The end of recissions, insurance company can’t just cut someone when they get sick.
    Insurance companies must now be transparent and reveal how much cost goes to overhead
    New screening procedures for eliminating insurance fraud
    Medicare payment protections for small rural hospitals and other facilities with small numbers of medicare patients
    A temporary coverage plan for people who retire early aged 55-64
    Encouraging investments in new therapies.

    Now name me one of those that are not worthwhile. Every single one of those are worthwhile. Is there stuff in the bill I don’t like? of course. I wouldn’t expect anyone to agree with everything in the bill. But it’s a damn good first step towards better health care in this country. But it’s no where near the “government takeover” of healthcare that all the conservatives keep yelling about. Read the damn bill first.

    4) Let’s see here, Marxism is basically a system of analysis, and a way to view the world. Communism, on the other hand, is basically a political movement, a form of government, a condition of society. Also there is a difference between “communism” and the Communist Party. No country has ever had a communist government, many countries that we ‘view’ as communist are really just run by a Communist Party which is just a political party that uses a platform of working towards achieving communism. The difference between working towards communism and achieving it is like the difference between building a house and living in it. Contrary to popular belief, the ultimate goal of communism is to abolish the State altogether, not have the State be the dominant force. Meanwhile Marxism is just a way to view the world with a specific system of values. Quite a big difference. Also shows that you can’t quite claim that the Communist democrats are trying to expand the Federal government, because by definition that is the opposite of communism.

    Now calling them socialists, well that’s closer. But then again, would you prefer that private companies owned roads and you had to pay different rates to drive on different roads? I’m not talking tolls for bridges or highways, I mean side roads and the like too. You may have a private company dug water well, but that company has to follow regulations of clean water that come from the government.

    The biggest problem those who elected Obama have with him so far? He compromised and dropped the public option, he didn’t take the troops out of Iran, and sent more troops to Afghanistan. He ran on change, but hasn’t changed much. The people who elected him aren’t angry about what he’s done, but what he hasn’t. He has capitulated to the republicans again and again. The entirety of the democratic party has no spine and are afraid. So rather than doing what they were elected to do, they hide behind trying to get bipartisan support from a Republican party who would rather tear the country apart by drawing lines in the sand, than contribute at all to the success of a Democratic president. Many times republicans would work with the dems on an amendment or idea or give the possibility of negotiation (such as Olympia Snowe) only to back out and vote it down after the dems had watered down their bill to appease the republicans. Again and again this happened. It’s ridiculous.

    5) So 34 dems didn’t agree with the rest of their party, that’s fine by me. However it’s the Republicans who are playing partisan politics because not a single one of them are willing to break rank.

    6) You seem to think that your changes had any effect on the tone of the link. You’re still relying on the cleanliness of water which happens because of government regulation. You’re still depending on an electric co-op who only ran lines beyond it’s core location because the government regulations made them. Your private company made car, if you crash or get into an accident, is much less likely to kill you because of government safety regulations. Hmm…i wonder if overpriced gas has anything to do with the wars in the middle east…where we get our oil from. Hmmm, the EPA hasn’t really change much of their regulations in a while but gas prices suddenly skyrocketted after we sent troops to the middle east, I wonder…

    Also, do you agree with the Texas School board taking Thomas Jefferson out of the school books? It’s funny how one school does a song about acceptance that happens to include the president in it which was written by a student on their own, and suddenly ALL public schools are doing it? really? But surely changing history is perfectly reasonable?

    If your house was burglarized what would that ADT security system do? Why it would call the police! You know, that socialist group of hard working americans? Internet run efficiently? Well, if only. Americans if we’re lucky can get 15 – 30 mbps if you pay a lot for it. While other countries have 50 – 100mbps (some are rolling out 1gbps infrastructure) and pay a lot less for it. How is that efficiently? If you log on to any broadband connection around dinner time, you get slowed down by everyone else around you hopping on at the same time, that’s not very efficient either. If the privately operated ISPs were efficient, then the billions of dollars that the Government gave them so that they could build their infrastructure WITHOUT regulating it would have been actually used to build infrastructure. Instead it goes to the pockets of a greedy executive who happened to want another house and another yacht. Give me a break.

    Do I think the government should run everything? Not at all. But there is nothing wrong with regulation where it is needed. Right now ISPs (for example) have basically duopolies in nearly every area of the country. Some even have monopolies. Regulation is needed to protect the consumer. Simple as that.

    7) Health care IS a right. You have a right to receive care and stay healthy without bankrupting yourself or your family. Your entire lifelihood should not be endangered simply because you got sick. Also, how does “rights are bestowed by God” reconcile with the fact that we have a right to free speech which is granted by the US Constitution? I’m not questioning your beliefs, but logically the entire concept of having a “right” to something is man-made.

    Also, heart bypasses happen in many countries without a hitch. The US is not the only country that can successfully do a heart bypass. One or two examples of excellent care in the US, especially if it requires a lot of money to get it does not do any good for the country as a whole. I’d rather have the entire country have better health services and health care than have a few world class hospitals. Once again I quote the fact that the quality of the health care in the US is ranked 17th in the world. Remember, the statistics are an average. Surely we have world class physicians and places. But so do other countries. Obviously these world class facilities are not accessible by a large percentage of americans.

    • 1. Private charity I have no problem whatsoever with. In fact I HIGHLY recommend it. However, forcibly taking money from me or my neighbor to give health care to me or my neighbor is wrong. Bernie Madoff took money from people and they called it fraud and a crime, Congress takes money from people and they call it health care.

      2. You failed to mention the Bloomberg poll that stated nearly the exact opposite with 50% opposed and only 39% in support.

      3. No one likes to talk about it, but if you let everyone that has pre-existing conditions buy into health insurance, pretty soon there is no health insurance at all. It would not be profitable and everyone would eventually go out of business leaving who but the federal government to pay for health care. But is that your plan all along? Pre-existing conditions sounds inhumane and cruel but were it not for some discrimination in health insurance, no one could get it. It’s like this: a new casino opened downtown. You don’t have to pay to play, anyone can play and you always win. How long is that casino going to stay open? Same with insurance companies.

      4. It’s ridiculous that you actually think that what you stated is true. Obama promised nothing but ‘fundamental change’ of America. People cheered because they had no idea what he was talking about. As to the small vocal loonies on the left like Code Pink and the Daily Kos sure they’re disappointed, but the majority of Americans who voted for Obama are independents. Those people are starting to break Republican en masse because they see what the dems are doing to the country,

      5. It’s not partisanship when you refuse to accept a bad bill, a bill that takes away freedom from Americans.

      6. I agree that there are *VERY* limited points where government regulations is needed. However, the police are not obligated to protect you as the SCOTUS has ruled. You are responsible for your own protection when you are in your own house. That is why I make sure my doors are locked and I have a handy baseball bat or other hard object nearby. As for the clean water… my well has not been inspected by the EPA. I don’t have municipal gas lines to my house. I have propane tanks that are refilled by a private company. About the internet, the ISPs are not whom I am talking about. The underlying infrastructure of the internet, that currently allows multiple hundreds of millions of people to access it at all times of the day or night, the domain name system etc. are all run via private companies. Did you also notice that when the internet went to the people instead of the government it exploded. The govt. didn’t help it become the best tool of communication ever. About the gas: WOW!!! Hmm… I thought lefties like you said we invaded so we could get cheap gas. Well I guess that didn’t work did it? (Oh and that cheery little Obama song, written by a student, yeah it was a rip-off of a child’s song praising JESUS!) ((Also, I do not agree with taking Jefferson out of the textbooks, however I do think that they should teach the merits of capitalism, American exceptionalism etc.))

      7. Health care IS NOT a right. Rights in the constitution are not granted therein but are enumerated. Hence why the framers stated “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.” No, the innate right has always been there. The government is however constrained to allow you to exercise that right freely and without restriction. Therefore the right would still be there but unscrupulous politicians would likely try to infringe upon it.

      As to your point about the health care. Many of the countries that have socialized medicine, if they are ranked higher than us, have a fraction of our population and therefore can afford to have the government pay for such services. However, in a nation of 305+ million people, there is no way that the government can coordinate or pay for health care. None. If these other places have world class surgeons, physicians, institutes etc. why do their leaders and other citizenry constantly come to America for high quality care?

      • Zero says:

        1) Unfortunately there are not enough people who are as charitable as you are. Comparing government health care to Bernie Madoff is quite a bad analogy. Congress gives a tax and many more people get healthcare, Bernie takes money and he gets a jet for himself. Hmm…I think there’s a difference in there somewhere.

        2) conglomeration of several polls showing that the difference is pretty much equally divided when you take into account the margins of error.

        3) The difference is that Casino doesn’t cause people to die. If other countries can handle taking care of all of their citizens without regard for pre-existing conditions than so can the US. Also, with the individual mandate that means that more healthy people will be paying into the insurance funds. Therefore with more healthy people paying into it, they will have more than enough to handle pre-existing conditions. While I doubt it’s some elaborate plan to force a single payer system, (conspiracy theory much?) I would personally prefer it. Health care should not be a for-profit system, no one should be profiting by refusing care to someone. Also, you completely ignored everything else I said about the provisions of the bill. Does this mean you agree they are worthwhile?

        4) Promised nothing but “fundamental change”? Uhm, he specifically promised health care reform, he specifically promised a public option. He specifically promised an end to pre-existing conditions keeping people from health care. He specifically promised closing guantanamo bay, he specifically promised getting our troops out of Afghanistan. How can you say he promised nothing but “fundamental change”? That just means you’re buying into the FUD. All of my peers that voted for Obama feel similarly to how i described, in addition to many people i’ve seen on various forums and sites (not specifically left or right sites either. all kinds).

        5) It is partisanship if you spend weeks negotiating provisions that you would accept in the bill, only to vote against them for no reason other than the party said so.

        6) The great thing about America is you have the option to do all of that. Or you have the option to use the federally regulated services, you can choose where you want to take a chance. However Police are duty bound to protect you if they are in your presence, or if you call them for help. Obviously they can’t protect you in your own home until they get there which would be too late in most instances. They are still a public socialist service that is necessary to the functioning of the country.

        I personally never said that we invaded purely for cheap gas, though it’s not far fetched to think of. Just because it’s possible they may have had that intention does not mean they would succeed. But like I said, it’s not something I personally believe. Actually most schools in the US do teach the merits of capitalism and the free market. Oh, sorry. The Texas school board said that capitalism and the free market are bad to say and should be removed in favor of the term “free enterprise”. sigh. The important thing to realize is that capitalism is not the be-all end-all for economics. It’s by no means a perfect system nor does it work in all situations. There are situations called ‘natural monopolies’ which by definition cannot be a free market. I have nothing against capitalism in the markets that it works in. What I have a problem with is insisting that the solution to everything is capitalism. For example ISPs are not a free market in the US. People insist that government regulation would restrict the ‘free market’ when it comes to internet services. But no such market exists, but this is a discussion for another time.

        7) If a country has less people to cover for health care, they also have less people paying taxes to cover it. Therefore this argument is pointless. We have more people, therefore more people pay taxes, therefore we have enough money to cover everyone. If we can’t, that is a failing of the health care system.

        Now to address the myth of people coming to America for health care. Sure some people do. Sure some high profile people do. Hell, if I was a rich guy needing some dangerous and expensive procedure that was cutting edge, I’d say the US was the place to go. However, hundreds of thousands of Americans near the south border of the country go to MEXICO for their health care! Why do they do this? Because it’s cheaper. A study done last year showed that at least 952,000 California adults head south annually for dental, medical, and prescription services. The most common thing being getting prescription drugs. Yea, Americans going to mexico to take advantage of THEIR health care.

        As far as the claims of canadians coming to the US to “escape” their health care system. There has only been one study done on that, and it was done around 10 years ago. You know what it found? Bupkis. The number of Canadians that came over for health care was infinitesimally small compared to the number of people treated by their system. In fact, the most common reasons for people coming to the US in that study were for leading-edge technology services that were unavailable in Canada at the time, people who lived part of the year in the US and part in Canada, or going to American centers that had great reputations near the border. All in all the entire thing is negligible. A pointless argument that has no basis or merit. Just a talking point that sounds good but has no stats to back it up.

        Oh, and Patients Beyond Borders, a site for medical tourism, reports that the most factor for people that use their service to come to leave the US for those big important services? “The most common factor is that the patient is either uninsured or underinsured.” Ah, thats why people leave the US for medical.

        Here’s some citations for you:

        So tell me again how the US is “the best in the world”.

      • Congratulations on being my 2000th hit. I can’t comment on yours now, I’m working on Easter prep. But thanks for being a large % of my hits. Don’t forget to tell your friends about my humble blog. 😉

      • Zero says:

        I think I will celebrate this by leaving a very special link.

        This is perhaps the most well documented article I have ever seen. I await not only your response to my earlier comment. But your take on this link I have left you.

      • First off, I am not a Republican per se. I am a conservative. All of those things mentioned I disagree with. However, neither party is exempt from idiots in it.

      • Zero says:

        I point this link out because the purpose of that article is to show how the Republicans are skewering the Conservative label. Nearly all Republicans run on a platform of being conservative. Therefore anything they do reflects on the label of being a conservative. They are completely manipulating the actual Conservatives by spreading fear and lies. For example, you mention how you hate the individual mandate, an idea that was put into the bill by the Conservative Republicans. Then you turn around and say how horrible Obama and the other Democrats are when the reason the mandate was put in, was in the interests of bipartisanship.

        I agree that neither party is exempt from the idiots in it. But nearly everything on that article is JUST since Obama took office. I’m sorry but you can’t find that many screw-ups and offensive behavior in the Democrats in that short time span. In addition, when you do find idiotic behavior from the Democrats, the behavior isn’t nearly as bad as the things listed in there. The democrats don’t run on a platform of ‘family values’ and purport to set an example for morality and living in the US. The republicans do, and thus makes their idiotic behavior hypocracy sometimes. You don’t get to wave off that article by saying “I’m not a republican” and then continue to use false Republican talking points as the basis for your arguments. Sorry.

      • I DO hate the mandate regardless of who put it in. It is unconstitutional and wrong to force someone to buy something that he or she does not need.

        The idiots in the democratic socialist party have long been worse than the Republicans. They have encouraged the use of violent imagery in describing the dislike of Bush (not a conservative by the way). They have encouraged impeaching him for fewer and less egregious reasons than the democratic socialists themselves are doing.

        Lastly, I can wave off that argument because I disagree with most everything listed therein and have stated such. I can do whatever I want because this is still a free country regardless of the democratic socialists’ attempts to take away our freedoms. At least it is for now.

      • Zero says:

        Did you read my post? No one is forcing anything. There is a tax penalty to discourage not having insurance, but that is all. If you think the tax penalty for not having insurance is unconstitutional, then wouldn’t the tax credit for buying a home also be unconstitutional?

        Once again I mention that the Democratic party is not socialist. Obama is not a socialist. While I heard talk of constituents about impeaching bush (not the senators or people in the party) I never heard anyone calling for Bush’s impeachment that was a leader in the party. Unlike the Republicans, Conservatives AND Tea Partiers whose leaders have publicly called for Obama’s impeachment for non-existent issues. No one marched in the streets with signs saying that Bush was a Nazi and compared him to Hitler such as people have done to Obama. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

        Sure you can do whatever you want, I would not presume to strip you of that right. But if you pride yourself on logical discussion, and I was of the opinion you did, then you cannot just wave that argument off. You say now that you disagree with most everything listed, yet you have repeatedly used the arguments on that article in your posts.

        For example, criticizing the use of valid procedures such as “deem and pass” and “reconciliation”, when conservative republicans used it without any criticism at all. Or perhaps making the fallacious argument of calling the democrats social/commun/fasc-ist. They aren’t. You got pissed at Obama for supposedly refusing to not use the word “terror”, here’s a hint Try again. You have made the mistake of insinuating that health care is just part of a larger socialist agenda. You continued to propagate the lies about death panels.

        This is just a small amount. How can you say that you disagree with most everything listed in there and have stated as such, when I can find so much (I’ll give you more if you like) that you have stated you agree with, or espoused a believe in the same view, or otherwise stated these falsities as truth. You can’t use “I’m not a republican” as a way to hand wave the article away when you espouse the same views that you claim to disagree with. Well, you can, but not if you want to have a coherent argument.

        Also, you seem to have dropped arguments about the other points I made. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you will be responding to them soon. 🙂

      • 1. The government is essentially forcing people into buying insurance through the exorbitant penalties levied against those that do not comply to their wishes. That is unconstitutional. The tax credit is given to those that were already planning on buying a home, it is not forcing them to buy something.

        2. What a bunch of BS! No one called for Bush’s impeachment? Try Dennis Kucinich. No one compared Bush to Hitler etc. Try this link: Really your point falls flat.

        3. I do pride myself on logical debate. Your tying me in with certain acts of others that I disagree with is illogical. My talking points are my own thoughts, observations and points. If they coincide with Republican points fine. Same with you and the dems. I do not equate you with Olbermann even though you two may share ideas. It is unfair for you to paint me as the same as the ones whose statements and actions I condemn.

        4. I criticize the use of deem and pass when it is used to rewrite and restructure 1/6th of the U.S. economy. While I dislike the rule in general, using it to rewrite a large portion of the economy while against the public’s will is unconscionable.

        5. I intend to get back on your points at some point. However it is busy here now and I have much to do for the upcoming holiday as well as for trying to find work. Soon my friend.

      • Zero says:

        1) The penalties cannot be called exorbitant, they are cheaper than just buying health insurance. The tax credit for home buying is used as an incentive to buy a home, just as the penalty for not having insurance is used as an incentive to buy insurance.

        2) I’ll concede the point. I had not seen these.

        3) Here’s the problem. The article shows you (if you read the links) that many of the observations and points you are using (such as those outlined in my previous comment) are just wrong. The facts prove that they are incorrect. Instead of acknowledging anything, such as admitting the fact that Obama is neither socialist nor facsist nor communist, and that marxist is also not correct either, for example, you just wave your hand claiming that the entire article means nothing since you are not republican.

        It’s illogical to assume that just because you don’t agree with everything they say, that proof against a point that you make that coincides with them doesn’t apply to you. My last comment mentioned several examples of points and observations that you have made and shows you the facts via the links, showing you where you were wrong on many of them. I’m not trying to equate you to their acts, I’m not trying to tie you to them either. I simply would like you to realize that many of the talking points you use, many of the arguments you have used in your posts against Obama, health care and democrats in general, are full of these incorrect assumptions that are based purely on many statements that are listed in that article. And in realizing this perhaps admit the points that you were wrong on.

        I’m not painting you as the same as them, the fact that you think I am means that you did not thoroughly read the top of the article. It mentions how the fringe and lunatics have hijacked the republican party and the conservative end of the political spectrum. I don’t lump you with them, I implore you to stop using that which you disagree with as a foundation for your points and observations. You use the same tactics of trying to capitalize on fear of obama that they have done. You falsely insist that people are breaking en masse to the republican party when that’s just not true. You parrot these republican talking points and then balk when I give you evidence to the contrary citing ‘inaccuracies’ or ‘bias’ which ‘never exists’ in whatever you try to use as proof against me.

        I shall expound more examples if you like. But I believe I have made my point. You cannot say the same things they say, agree with their points, use the same tactics, and make the same observations, and then tell me that you disagree with everything on that list which would be a contradiction to many of the things you claim to be your own talking points and your own observations. Logically that just invalidates your own arguments. You have stated that your own points, which coincide with points proven false on that site, are points in which you disagree. Give me reasoning and arguments that don’t parrot the things you supposedly ‘disagree’ with.

        4) It is not a restructure of 1/6th of the US economy. It is not a rewrite of it, it is not a takeover either. It is simply several changes that will help to make the system more sustainable and efficient in the long run. There’s a lot to criticize in this bill, but there’s also a lot to praise. It’s impossible to get a bill that is perfect. But you don’t shoot all of the dogs because a small group of them have fleas. Not only that, but the repeated “against the public’s will” when the polls consistently show that the majority of the public WANT a public option, and want reform. When it’s also shown that it’s about a 50-50 divide down the country whether this bill passing is a good thing. That’s not “against the will of the people.” Maybe against the will of half the people? but if you can never do anything that is against anyone’s will then nothing will get done. A bill passed by a majority in both houses should count for something.

        5) I look forward to you responding to my other points.

      • 1. Fees, fines, taxes, penalties if you do not buy something. That is wrong! Regardless of the cost, it is still a burden on the people that didn’t buy insurance because they couldn’t afford it.

        2. I accept your concession.

        3. I read through many of those: I did not liken gay people getting married to getting married to a duck (although I did state that it would be a slippery slope ending in all manner of acceptable ‘marriages’), I did not liken David Souter to the foul, vile names that Erick Erickson likened him, I certainly do not ascribe to the theory that crushing a child’s testicles ANYWHERE, ANY TIME or for ANY REASON should be legal. In fact I think whoever does that should be hanged. The child has done nothing wrong. Doing that to an adult is wrong as well. I have not, in ANY of my posts, done anything like described therein. Under the ‘hatred’ section you are accusing me of something that EVERY liberal organization has accused the tea partiers of doing (calling people racist etc.) My, my, seems like exactly what the dems have done as well. My reasoning and arguments might reflect conservative or Republican ideas, however my methods or whatever else is different from name-calling, profanity spewing, violence advocating, cheering for the death of a grandmother whatever. Reasoning and arguments are one thing, actions are another.

        4. The government does not do anything better than the private sector. I’ll hold that up. Except for the military. (No I’m not some radical that wants a privatized military. In fact the military is about the only part of the government that I have any respect for.) I like that about the dogs. That is funny. However, when the cost of the bill is tremendous on debt and the deficit, you can’t allow the good things to happen while paying HUGE prices for them. Incremental steps are what is needed. You can lower the costs without mandates and fines and looking over doctors’ shoulders.

        5. Done, look for it. It’s there.

      • Zero says:

        1) Having more healthy people in the insurance lowers the overall needed premium for everyone as a whole. Those who don’t get insurance “to save money” are the same people who don’t go to the doctor when they are sick “to save money” and therefore end up having to go to the emergency room and then not being able to pay their bill. The emergency room is the most expensive place to get treated and since so many people are unable to pay their bill, this is why health care costs continue to rise in order to overcome these lost expenses. How is it fair that these selfish people should be the cause of raising everyone else’s prices? There is a reason that there is subsidies to help people afford health care, and more subsidies are in the bill to help them. It’s not “a means of social or economic justice.” The most effective way to start bringing prices down is to ensure that everyone gets preventative care. Those who “just want to save money” end up being part of the cause of rising health care costs. (Notice I said part of the cause, I do not imply this is the only reason.)

        2) “Most americans?” How can you state ‘most americans’ support your view when everything shows that it’s closer to a 50-50 split? Think of the way people behave…people tend to take to the streets to protest and rally against things, people don’t often take to the streets in support of things. Especially if it is going their way (health care gets passed). I’m not saying this is a correct way to do it, but people feel like they have don’t have to do much while things are going their way.

        3) The worst thing that ever happened was for the health care system to tie health insurance to jobs. It’s much too late to fix that without a much larger reform than this bill does. Unfortunately we are stuck with it for now and every full-time employee should get insurance from their employer. Not enough people are being paid enough as is to be able to afford health insurance, this is ridiculous. There is no reason that anyone shouldn’t have health insurance. Simple as that.

        Also, you picked a bunch of things from the list that you don’t do. Without disproving anything I pointed out where you made the same false comments or statements. I reiterate the same thing I’ve been saying, that I am not saying you are the same as them. I’m not saying that you make all the same problematic comments that they do, I said that you make many of the same ones. You continue to point at several points that you don’t agree with, but refuse to refute anything I’ve said about the ones that you do agree with and the same mistakes that you make. Do you think that you’ll distract me? I don’t know. I really don’t get it. Notice I don’t attribute the horrible actions, and assertions to you, I am attributing the use of false assertions, fake “facts” and completely false statements. None of which you have refuted.

        4) Looking at the results Obama won by almost 10 million votes. Not a large margin, I agree. But I wonder what will happen when the country doesn’t collapse? What will happen when the insurance industry doesn’t collapse? What will happen when the “death panels” don’t show up? When all of these scare tactics don’t materialize, I wonder if people will begin to see the lies and FUD for what it really was? We’ll see what actually happens in November and then in 2012. I don’t claim to assume anything about the possible results of these elections. A lot can change in the coming months and years.

        How is it too close to a public option? It is extremely far away from a public option. It’s nearly the opposite of a public option. This is one of the reasons that I’m not completely happy with the bill. I think what it does is important, but it doesn’t come anywhere near a public option. The fact that you claim it is too close to a public option just shows that you haven’t actually done the research for what is in the bill. This was also shown when I mentioned several things that were actually in the bill and the only things you have said you were against are the individual mandate and removal of pre-existing conditions. You hate this bill, you think it is horrible, yet you can only specifically name two things that you don’t like. How can I take you seriously? How does your opposition mean anything? You simply repeat the lies.

        4) I’ll simply state this. When it comes to health care, a public option couldn’t do any worse than the current system. But seeing as government-run healthcare is but a pipe dream for the time being. Talking about this at all has no bearing on the bill that was just passed seeing as how I have already mentioned how it is no where near the public option and no where near a government take over of health care.

        6) The “best system” if there is one is a combination of different systems. Capitalism doesn’t work in all situations, and people need to realize this. Capitalism has failed in health care, along with several other industries (such as ISPs). Recognizing where other systems will do better than capitalism is what is needed to further progress the US. The problem is the conservatives who believe that Capitalism is the be-all end-all of everything. I have nothing against capitalism in industries where it works.

        7) If you actually look at the bill that was passed, it IS incremental steps. Not everything happens at once and things are introduced over time. The reforms are incremental in their introduction. Personally I’d be perfectly happy paying slightly more in taxes if it meant that everyone got health care. Especially if it also meant that I would have access to any health services I needed when I needed them. I’ve recently needed medical care and frankly don’t know what I would have done without it being so easily accessible for me. I wonder what it is like for those millions of people who, unlike me, cannot access health care so easily.

        I’ve been lucky. I was covered under my parents’ insurance up until I graduated College. Got a job right out of college that gives me excellent coverage which started immediately upon starting work. Millions are no where near as lucky and if me paying some more taxes would mean that they get better access to health care and better quality health care, then I say go for it. How is it fair that millions of people should not be allowed to get health care?

        it’s amusing how only the polls that show what you agree with are accurate, and every time I show you a study or poll that proves you wrong (even when the poll or study is actually an average of many polls) you then suddenly take the stance that polls and studies are inaccurate and could be biased. This is ridiculous.

        I make a valid statement showing you, with citations, how the statement that the US has “the best healthcare” is just inaccurate and wrong, that people LEAVE the US for healthcare as much as or moreso than people come to the US for it, and all you do is state how you “don’t know” (contrary to your previous statement where you claimed you did know). You just attempt to placate the situation without admitting you were wrong because the admission would be against what you believe. I’m actually disappointed that you have chosen to disregard the facts I have shown you and attempt to sidestep them.

      • 1. I agree that people should have to pay for their own care. But mandating that they buy health insurance is not the right way. Not being an economist I can’t say exactly what would be the best way, however I know that mandates would hurt my area that has been ravaged by unemployment and little business growth.

        2. Maybe so, but if there was so much support for the health care bill, where was it in the polls? Where was it in a grassroots movement? Where was it on the internet or elsewhere?

        3. Which assertions and facts and so forth am I ascribing to or using? Point out which one. Point out which ones. You continue to say that I use the same ‘false assumptions’, name them, point them out. What mistakes have I made? Have YOU read the bill? Do you know what is in it or are you using the talking points of the Democratic Socialists?

        4. No, people will continue to see that their ‘representatives’ that were elected to represent their interests, views and principles betrayed them by voting for a health care bill that they clearly did not want. They will see that the democrats that claim to be for the ‘working man’ are really screwing the working man by forcing him to buy something that the Constitution doesn’t allow Congress to do.

        The mandate and the preexisting conditions are two of my objections. I don’t like that doctors will basically lose doctor-patient privacy in the form of the reports detailing the effectiveness and quality of care as opposed to other doctors (Section 3003 (i)). I don’t like that the IRS is being expanded to monitor people and businesses on a monthly basis to determine their health insurance status. I don’t like that there is going to be no allowance of a lifetime cap on expenditures for insurance companies to provide a lower cost premium for people that never use their insurance (Section 2711). I don’t like that if you have never touched alcohol you still have to pay for substance abuse coverage in your insurance (Section 1302). I don’t like that the government is going to extract a fine from medical device makers based upon their percentage of device sales (Section 9009 (b)). This makes it harder and more expensive for groundbreaking new medical devices that will save lives. Specific enough?

        5. A public option could be a LOT worse than what we have now. Think about the NHS in Britain where the wards are filthy and fail to meet basic hygiene requirements: The government, for once, would care about efficiency. In that case they would then decide that some operations are out of whack in the cost/benefit analysis and then deny care.

        6. The best system is capitalism hands down. If it weren’t Venezuela, Switzerland, Europe etc. would all have surpassed us in wealth, etc. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system.

        7. It is incremental only in time. The whole kit and kaboodle was passed. It should have started with tort reform and then worked it’s way up. As for the taxes part, call me greedy but my family and I are barely making it work as it is. I don’t need some more taxes laid on me so that someone else can have health care. They should buy it if they need it. Same with me. I don’t want someone else’s hard earned money paying for something that is my responsibility.

        Millions of people are allowed to get health care. It would be easier if companies could compete across state lines because then there would be multiple choices thereby FORCING the companies through competition to lower rates and increase care.

        No, I’m saying that the proof is in the pudding. The Congressional switchboard was nearly crashed by how many people phoned in their disapproval. The tea parties, the sudden swell of money towards the opposition of the democrats. You cannot deny that this is going to turn out very badly for the dems. Polls are skewed, it’s the nature of the beast. However, some are more accurate than others.

        Fine, I concede that in some instances other countries have some better aspects of health care. However, the United States is #1 in new treatments, lifesaving drugs, medical devices, cancer treatment etc. Basically you are saying that our lack of health insurance is the single issue that we are behind in?

      • 1. Stealing is still stealing. Whether you give the stolen money, goods etc. to someone else is irrelevant. It was still taken unlawfully from someone who earned it and giving it to someone else.

        2. Touche’. The polls can be skewered based on the bias of the pollster or polling organization.

        3. I agree that some are worthwhile. However, it is unconstitutional to force someone to buy something just for being a citizen. Even car insurance can be avoided by not having a car. Being a citizen forces you to get insurance. And fines people EXTRAORDINARILY high fines if they don’t.

        4. If you voted for Obama you were either liberal or deceived. And don’t forget that there were 50+ million that voted against him.

        I’ll try and write some more later but it’s late and I’m tired.

      • Zero says:

        1) By definition a tax is not stealing. By definition a tax is lawful. Try again. Congress is not “stealing” anything.

        2) So rather than admitting that the end result is that since many many polls roughly agree that the country is fairly evenly divided over the healthcare issue, you come up with a general statement about the bias of polls.

        3) Extraordinarily high fines is just another Republican talking point, the fines are less than the actual cost of getting health insurance. It’s no different than the guy who gets a tax credit for buying a house (buying health insurance) and the guy who pays a higher tax because he didn’t. Or any other of numerous situations where one might have to pay higher taxes than someone else because they didn’t make a specific purchase that year. Once again it was the Conservative Republicans who originally supported this idea fully until the Democrats added it to the bill. Then suddenly they were against it. Logically, since 75% of our health care costs go into managing chronic illnesses, doesn’t it make sense to get more people to go to preventative care? To catch these illnesses on the front end, when they are just developing? That would dramatically bring the cost of health care down in the long run. Less people using ERs that aren’t able to pay for them. Oh what a day that would be.

        4) Out of a country of 305 million people, you think that 50+ million is a big number? I actually thought a lot more people voted against him. Guess he was more popular than I thought. With the specific promises he made, he got elected because a majority of the population wanted these specific things to happen. That’s all. Were some of the deceived? Sure, he dropped the public option like a bad habit. He still hasn’t completely closed Guantanomo, he still hasn’t gotten the troops entirely out of Afghanistan, he still hasn’t repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”. Others feel that he’s working on these things and hope he’ll get to them soon now that the health care bill has finally been passed. Many people have many different opinions. This health care bill is more conservative than even Nixon’s proposed health care bill years ago. It’s ridiculous to see the opposition of people who demonize the things that they used to support, simply because the Republicans AND the Tea Party people say they should.

        I’d love to see you write more. At the very least this allows me to directly refute the false talking points about health care and show that the bill that was just passed is no where near the “liberal monstrosity” that Republicans and Conservatives alike keep making it out to be. Personally, while I support the bill, there is quite a lot I didn’t like, such as the executive order about abortions, and the lack of a public option. I view this bill as a good first step. Hopefully to be followed by more.

      • 1. Taxing as a means of social justice or economic justice is wrong. Taxes are to be levied only for the essential purposes of the government. That does not include providing every little thing that the government thinks that Americans need or want. It only involves protecting us from foreign entities and ensuring the common safety. It does not include forcing us to buy something.

        2. Yes I do. I agree that the country is split. However most Americans support my point of view as evidenced by the groundswell of people in tea parties and protests against Obama and the dems. If there was such support for Obama and HC where is it? Besides the purple shirted thugs from SEIU and the (to borrow a phrase from Glenn Beck 😉 ) dope smoking hippies?

        3. How exactly is it cheap when it could cost companies thousands of dollars per employee if they don’t provide health care to their employees? I would rather have a job and have to buy my own health insurance than not have either.

        4. You make it sound like there are 300 million voters. It shows that there was a heck of a lot of opposition to him. Again, the majority of his voters were deceived. I refuse to believe that the liberals than like Obama are enough to reelect him. He needed much of the middle, the same middle that has turned on this bill. If he continues to alienate the public, say good-bye to a Democratic Congress and goodbye to the WH come 2012.

        Personally I hate the bill. In fact I think I couldn’t hate it much more if the devil himself wrote it. The executive order is worthless and it is too close to a public option. I will continue to fight this bill and every other bill that the Congress tries to pass. I will support anyone that runs on the repeal of the bill.

      • This is in continuation to you 7 points. I think I addressed 1-5. So I’ll start at 6.

        6. I never said that capitalism is perfect. Since man is by definition fallen and sinful, no system will work perfectly or flawlessly. However, capitalism is the best system because it incentivizes hard work and innovation whereas socialism incentivizes expecting the government to help you. It’s like the hypothetical professor. To prove the worthlessness of socialism he conducted an experiment. The students would do their assignments and the scores would be averaged. At first the good students worked hard and would have gotten As. The worse students worked like they normally did and would have gotten Cs. However, the average rewarded the worse students and penalized the good students. Eventually the good students gave up and the bad students depended on the good students and everyone failed. Socialism works like that.

        7. The point is there are MANY that would receive care whose cost outweighs what they would pay in taxes. The others would pay more than what would benefit them. How is that fair in any way?

        As to the point about Canada: ask the Canadians that have come here. Studies, like polls can be skewed by bias or not be done at all because of bias. However, I cannot specifically comment on Canada’s medicine or the Canadian viewpoint. America does need reform. I have stated that. Incremental steps can be done to fix some of our problems. Government involvement however will only make them worse.

  3. Zero says:

    If all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, how can access to healthcare not be a right? It says it right there, “life” is a right, you have a right to continue to live. This is why hospitals MUST treat you. However, I believe it is the most ridiculous thing that you can go bankrupt just to pay for lifesaving treatment. I shouldn’t have to bankrupt myself, to save the life of myself or another.

    A poll was taken (albeit, it was a general poll so you can mock it’s methods all you like) that with a few million responses, 39% of people supported the bill, and 61% were against it. However, 13 of that 61% opposed it because it was not liberal enough, which it isn’t. That means that 52% of people want health care reform or want it to be more liberal than what has been done. (Again, if you so choose you can disregard the numbers because it wasn’t a ‘scientific’ survey. I’m just using this for a point).

    There are several of the Republican ideas in this health care bill such as some Tort reform, the increased health savings accounts, higher reimbursements for doctors from medicare, and “undercover patients” to investigate medicare fraud. In fact there are quite a lot of the Republican ideas in this bill, yet no Republican will acknowledge that fact. During the start of the Iraq war, public opinion had about 65% of the people against it and no one questioned when Cheney and other Republicans outright said that “public opinion doesn’t matter. Do you want Joe Shmoe running the country?” yet now they decry that the Dems should be listening to public opinion (which is actually around 45% in favor, not 73% against).

    Anyways, my point is that this bill is not as “marxist” or “socialist” or “liberal” or “communist” (it’s astounding how many people actually don’t realize that nothing can be all four of those at once. They are mutually exclusive ways of doing things.) as it could be, or as the people wanted it to be. A full 60% of people in polls said they wanted a public option. Obama was elected on a platform of health care reform, people who voted for him are angry that there was so much compromise and loss of things like the public option.

    The Republicans are just spreading FUD and trying to use the health care controversy to whip the public into a frenzy so they can get power back. That’s all. They’ve shown time and time again (as have the Dems. so don’t think I blindly follow them) that their political obligations and ideals are flexible enough to suit the time at hand so that they can get power. Partisan politics needs to stop.

    I leave you with a link to something that made me laugh and be afraid at the same time. Because as ridiculous as it is, it’s completely true and that saddens me. Take a look at this image and read what it says. Realize the hypocrisy of yelling about how socialism will destroy the country.

    Access to healthcare is a right that all people should enjoy. If the US is this most important nation of the world that all the conservatives believe it is, why do we pay nearly double what other countries pay for health care that isn’t as good unless you’re rich? We are 17th in life expectancy and health care quality. Only if you’re rich and can pay for it can you have access to that “best health care in the world” conservatives shout about. Personally I’d rather lose a little bit a quality in order for more people to have access to it. What’s the point of having “the best health care” if the only people who can use it are the rich and foreigners?

    • 1. Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the rights of a free people. However, it is your responsibility to pay for health insurance and whatever other forms of health care you need. Society should not need to pay for something you need to have done or elect to have done. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. If you go bankrupt you can return to life as normal. It’s not as though you become a social pariah that can’t find a job or buy food.

      2. Yes I do not take the word of this general poll. Besides, if there is such a large contingent of pro-socialism people out there, how come they aren’t marching in the streets and demanding a public option? The polls conducted recently show that more than double as many people identify themselves as conservative as opposed to liberals. That directly refutes your point.

      3. The Republican ideas being in the bill no more make this bill palatable than a drop of freshwater in the ocean makes it drinkable. Just because there are one or two or three hundred Repub. ideas means nothing. It is still the same stinking bill that will fine, tax or penalize families that do not buy insurance. It still forces businesses to provide health insurance in the middle of a recession thereby making it harder to stay open and keeps wages low. It is still the same bill that allows for federal funding of abortion and still adds nearly 17,000 IRS agents as upholders of the law. I don’t think there is ANYTHING worthwhile in this bill save for wiping your feet upon it.

      4. Marxist/Communist are essentially the same. Socialism is one step away from communism and liberal is two or 1 1/2 steps away depending on the liberal. Obama was elected on a platform of ‘change’ that was ill-defined. People wanted change from Bush and bought into the hype. Now they are realizing that what they got was a thousand times worse and are now taking to the streets en masse to protest against him and his big government cronies.

      5. I agree that partisan politics can be bad. However, at this time when the dems are the partisans (remember 34 dems broke ranks and voted with the Republicans) the Republicans have this one pegged exactly right. It is government takeover of health care as well as school loans, something no one seems to mention. If that weren’t enough, they (the Socialist Democratic party) are trying to ram through immigration reform next to add millions of illegals to the voter rolls to keep themselves in power illegally. The Socialist Democrats need to be thrown out by hook or by crook.

      6. Your link is amusing. However, it actually looks a bit more like this:

      This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by the electric co-op whose rates went up due to government regulation. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by my private company dug well. After that I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to hear more government propoganda about global warming from the National Weather Service. I watched this while eating my breakfast of wheat toast made by myself in my private company made toaster. I then took my vitamins that were inspected by the FDA and formulated by a private company with private funds and capital.

      At the appropriate time as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Insitute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Academy I get into my private company made car (not GM anymore!) and promptly run over a crater sized pothole not fixed by the government despite high taxes. I refuel buying overpriced gas due to over-regulation by the EPA using legal tender that is now worthless due to the Federal Reserve. On the way out the door I drop off any mail to be lost or mistransported by the U.S. Postal Service and drop off my kids at the public school where they are learning nothing but ‘My Two Daddies’ or “MMM…MMM…MMM… Barack Husein Obama. He said ‘red, yellow, black, white’ all are precious in his sight… MMM…MMM…MMM!”

      After work, where my hours are being cut due to the high corporate tax rate, I drive my privately made car back home on the DOT roads to my home which hasn’t been improved upon in years due to the high property taxes and which has not been plundered due to state of the art ADT security system and a healthy supply of rifles, handguns and ammunition.

      I then log on to the internet which is now run efficiently by a private entity through my privately operated ISP so I can post on huffington post and daily kos about how evil capitalism is and how the government should run everything instead.

      7. Health care is not a right. Rights are bestowed by God and cannot be added, subtracted, repealed, supplied etc. by man. Health care is a commodity that can be bought and sold. Rights cannot be bought or sold. My father, who is not rich by any stretch of the word, had a heart bypass that surely would have been botched or he would have died in any other country. In this country he received excellent care. Try going to the Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic. They are examples of what is right with America. (The CC has been ranked tops in heart care for the past 13 years I do believe. THAT INCLUDES FOREIGN NATIONS!)

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: